Response post to a question I received from Jenny of Ex-Consumer.
Hi Tanja. I’m so glad I found you through Marianne! Your site is incredible. Really, really beautiful design.
What a great story. I used to be quite the packrat too. In fact, I felt like I had things pretty well under control — until I had two kids. Now my oldest son (6) is becoming a packrat and his clutter is overtaking a couple of rooms in our house. I’m trying to figure out how to curb his accumulating tendencies, but so far I’ve come up short. Any suggestions? I added an RSS feed icon to my blog after reading your comment, and I just subscribed to your feed by email. :)
My response: Hi Jenny (I signed up for your rss. Thanks for adding it!). I had a harder time writing this than I thought I would. It unsurfaced a lot of old childhood stuff for me. I used to be a packrat kid. Not a hoarder kid, but a messy, cluttery packrat kid. I didn’t clean my room. I didn’t want to get rid of things. And I always wanted something new and shiny at the mall.
When you’ve got a packrat child on your hands it can feel overwhelming. You’ve got two main options staring you in the face. You can spend 18 years picking up after them (that’s what my mom did, bless her soul). Or you can work with your child to teach them healthy limits and boundaries. That’s what too much stuff is when you condense the issue down to basics, a lack of limits.
Families in America have thousands of options. Options of what clothes to wear, what toys to buy (adults too), even choosing what movie to watch can offer a spectrum of a couple hundred choices at the local Blockbuster.
The one thing we don’t have is the ability to exercise all of our options. There isn’t enough time and space in our lives to have limitless abundance. And that’s where limits and boundaries come in. We have to make choices.
Healthy Limits
Teaching a packrat child (or any child) to understand healthy limits will profoundly affect their ability to function later in life after they’ve grown up. Trust me. I know. My mom (a wonderful mother) had a budding packrat on her hands. She took the path of cleaning up my messes for 18 years as her solution. As a result I never learned to do it on my own.
Now that sounds insane doesn’t it? Never learned to clean my own room? Well I didn’t. I also didn’t learn basic housekeeping lessons, how to balance a checkbook, and how to respect the stuff I owned.
My parents were wonderful parents in many ways, but they forgot to cover a few basics. There are things kids will learn at home that they can never learn at school. Some of those things are respecting themselves, respecting their belongings, respecting other people, and developing critical decision making skills.
What I did learn was the shopping mall was good. Shiny new things were good and money grew inside plastic credit cards. These are not the life lessons anyone wants to teach their children, but it’s quite common these days.
Most kids who clutter are not clinically diagnosed hoarders. They’re simply showing what they’ve learned. Parents often start them off young, giving infants tons of gifts for Christmas. They learn to expect gifts frequently. They learn that new things are better than old things. They learn that more is better than less.
Kids are smart. And it’s what YOU teach them that they’ll take into their adult life. Give them a strong start by teaching them to care for themselves, their things, and their home. Have conversations about money and what it costs to buy a new action figure. Equate it out to hours worked. Say things like, “This toy costs $15. Mom has to work 30 minutes to buy this new toy for you. Are you willing to do 30 minutes of chores around the house in order to get it?”
Teach them the value of money because that leads to learning the value of things. Teach them that relationships and people are more important than things.Teach them the fine art of self discipline. Teach them to pick up after themselves, put their toys away and handle their things gently so they don’t break.
Set limits. Set boundaries. And watch how they flourish.
Now for some specifics:
1 As a parent you control how much comes into the house. That’s good! Start limiting the amount of new things your child is given. Get friends and family on the same page for holidays and birthdays. Less is more and you can teach your child this. Gently teach him to care for what he owns and cherish it. Your goal is to cut back on his desire for “new” things. Luckily you do have control over new things coming into the house. Start implementing this control. It is the first big step.
2 Create healthy boundaries. Limit the amount of space that can be cluttered by your son. This will go over smoother if you involve the whole family and avoid singling him out as the culprit. Hold a family meeting where you talk about the house clutter. Get everyone on board with some new rules. Here are some sample rules:
- Personal items are limited to each person’s bedroom.
- If there are any exclusions to the first rule (toy box in family room, purse on kitchen counter, etc.) spell them out clearly.
- Set rules for the exclusion zones as well. The new rule for a toy box may be that all toys must fit inside the box or some must be put in the bedroom.
- Set up awards for following the rules. An extra dollar as an allowance or a fun outing for each clutter free week.
- Set up gentle consequences for not following the rules. Ex. Any toys or personal items left out after bedtime go into the “family clutter box” in the garage for a month. Be firm. Don’t give in on the consequences or the behavior will not be learned.
I leave everyone with these last thoughts. Don Aslett, the author of Clutter’s Last Stand, says that children have 75% more toys than they need. Children don’t buy all these toys for themselves. Adults buy them. It starts with controlling how much comes in. Once that’s under control the decluttering starts. And remember that all the shiny new toys in the world are no match for a stick, a string and and some imagination. Here’s my midnight conversation with Patrick.
Patrick “My favorite toy was a stick and a rope. I’d go on adventures with them. Mostly in the woods. They’d turn into a weapon or a super power.”
Tanja, “How can a stick and a rope be a superpower?”
Patrick, “You’d have to read Captain Britain to know.”
Kids don’t need as much as we think they need. Less is more. All they really need is lots of love, healthy limits, gentle guidance, a stick and a rope, and a heaping dose of imagination.
Next week I’ll put out the follow-up post with specific decluttering tricks for kids. This week just focus on steps 1 and 2 as a homework assignment.
What do you all think? Did you learn these important life lessons as a child? If you have kids have you passed these lessons onto them? Comments below!
I love your website and read it daily. This issue with kids and stuff really hits home with me. I don’t need stuff and this has been a journey for me as well. This past year we went from 7 large plastic storage boxes full of just holiday decorations down to one small cardboard box. Wow, what a relief. But my 9yr old son’s room is a never ending story of bomb-went-off-mess, purge, organize, only to go back to bomb-went-off-mess again. We purge at least twice a year of things that he doesn’t want any longer. Another battle I face with not only him, but my husband encourages him to keep stuff and gets angry if I try to donate it. When my son is interested in something, he can’t just have one, he has to have ALL of them in every color and even though he buys his own toys we can’t come to an acceptable amount of stuff. Getting my husband on board is a big obstacle for me. “other people’s clutter” is what I deal with right now. For my husband, buying things for someone tells them you love them as this is how his dad loved him. Thanks for talking about this important issue that we need to face so my son will be able to do this on his own.
Hi Kim. One of the toughest situations is when both parents don’t see eye to eye on how to handle issues like this. I wish you lots of luck finding a good solution that works for both of you. It sounds like you and your hubby should sit down and really try to talk it out. Bring your points to the table. Wait till your son isn’t home then take a tour of his room together. Your husband may not “see” the problem if he doesn’t spend much time in there. Showing the overabundance to him is a good start. Open communication is the big key here. Good luck!
This is good and I’m trying so hard to teach limits to my kids.
Kids are so interesting…my kids have chores they have to do – some are daily responsibilities and some are to earn money. Yesterday we were out running errands and both girls started asking if they could buy this or that at the store (with their money). After some discussion, we agreed what they could buy. When we got home they had forgotten about their new purchases. Their “prizes” they needed so desperately are still sitting in a bag – unopened and unasked for. That sends me several messages. We all see things we want and think we need when we are out shopping. Often we buy them, bring them home and then forget about them – just like my girls did yesterday!
My kids love to play with things that aren’t toy’s – I point this out to them daily. They play with blankets, rocks, shells and sticks (that have been made into bows and arrows and swords). Still, when I suggest getting rid of toys, they have a hard time letting them go.
I think we will always be working on this area! (just as I will always be working on my stuff!)
Jill Foley recently posted..Boot Camp – Day 27 continued
Jill, I’m using you as my “poster board for living with kids and living with less” next week. There’s a post you did that I’m planning on linking to because it was such a wonderful solution to the kids too-much-stuffitis.
How interesting that they forgot all about their “shiny new things” by the time they got home. That’s so common. Even us adults are sometimes guilty of it!
Did you take a secret agent trip to TN and bug our apartment? I swear you always post about issues that I am dealing with at the moment. This is exactly what I needed to read right now. Even though we have whipped through the decluttering process (currently on hold, as you know) we came to a real road block with our son’s toys. He has very little by most people’s standards. We have taken steps t limit the number of gifts he receives – one gift per person, per holiday, including grandparents. We usually give him a few more gifts, but not above 3 or 4 for Christmas and even less for birthdays. So here is where the trouble come in – our son loves and plays with all his toys. Of course he plays with some more than others (of course they tend to the the ones with a million tiny parts). But he still notices when something is gone. So we had trouble sorting out the favorites,from those he plays with because they are around. He is starting to grow out of his storage, so we know that we have to start purging, but it is hard. There are certainly some toys we can swap out for the new ones that are certainly coming at Easter and his birthday. He is getting older and passing developmental milestones, so it is time to retire some of his toys in favor of ones that will help him continue to grow. We know this, but it is damn hard.
This post came at jut the right time. I am sending it to my husband because it has really helped me start to get my mind right about the role toys and things should be playing in our son’s life. If we don’t teach him limits with his own things and how to manage the things he has now, I know it will lead to problems in the future. In fact, you talked about self discipline, and I just listened to an npr story about the importance of teaching kids self-discipline: http://www.npr.org/2011/02/14/133629477/for-kids-self-control-factors-into-future-success It was interesting, but it lacked the kind of practical advice you offer here. I LOVE this post.! Thanks again for the incredibly thoughtful advice.
jaime recently posted..bootcamp – update
Hey Jaime,
It’s time to start rotating. As you say he doesn’t have much, but it’s still overflowing the space. I love the idea of a toy rotation. Who wrote about it? I thought it was you! Evidently not so maybe it was Jill. And there’s always trying to buy things with “less pieces” in the future. :)
You know doing a toy rotation is perfect right now since you’re just moving into a new place. Let him know all the toys don’t fit comfortably in his room. Put the least used toys in a box and store them where he can’t get to them. Then a month from now put those toys back in rotation and take another box out. It doesn’t get rid of clutter, but it teaches him that for the most fun you can play with just a few toys at a time.
My 8 year old is like this. She doesn’t have many toys, but is very sentimental about everything. I’ve actually had great success on the toy front with both girls, but am totally failing with this whole sentimental issue and my eldest. Many, many items hold special memories for her and I haven’t quite worked out how to help her feel like she can part with them. We have, however, implemented a cleaning schedule for her (like the Flylady’s zones only she has one area of her room to work on each day for 10 m.) and I’m hoping that will help her to realize that all these things she “loves” and can’t part with are just making it harder for her to keep her room nice. My 2 year old is so unattached at this point I’m ruthless with her stuff! Great ideas.
Terra@TheSimplePoppy recently posted..Interrupting this Hiatus
Hey Terra,
The Flylady’s fun isn’t she? When I was decluttering I’d head over to that site a lot, and I got her book from the library too. I like that she teaches systems and setting up a cleaning schedule for your oldest is perfect. She’s learning to care for her things and sometimes that’s all the gentle nudging that needs to happen for kids (and adults) to start realizing they don’t need to keep EVERYTHING. :)
Tanja – I’ve been waiting for this post ever since you promised to write it. Thank you so much!!!
It’s funny, my husband and I started out with the best intentions. We knew didn’t want our son to be materialistic, or to have so many “things” that he didn’t respect any of them. We actually don’t buy him very many things at all. We buy him a few things for his birthday and Christmas, and that’s it for the year.
The big problem we’re having is with very well intentioned grandparents SHOWERING him with what seems to be every available toy on the market. We’ve mentioned that we would prefer a small deposit to his 529 college fund and maybe one small gift for special occasions, but our pleas are ignored. We love how involved and special the relationship is between our son and his grandparents, so we certainly don’t want them to feel that their generosity isn’t appreciated. Know what I mean?
When he was younger it was easier to deal with. We would politely thank them for all of the gifts, and then donate half of the toys he received before he even knew he had them. Now that he’s older and more aware of what he’s received as gifts, it’s much harder (read: impossible) to pry him away from the new swag.
My son fully understands the value of money, which is something I’m proud of teaching him. After I spent a large chunk of time reading your blog over the weekend, I decided to implement a one-thing-in, two-things-out rule in our home to help my son curb his yearning to buy more thingamajigers with his weekly allowance. In other words, for every one thing he brings into this house, two things of equal or greater size must go out.
Because of you, I became inspired to emphasize to my son the option of using his money to buy an experience, which as a family we value far more than material things. Thank you.
Wow. Sorry for the long comment!
Jenny @ exconsumer recently posted..Are Personal Finance and Minimalism the Same
Hey Jenny. Long comments are awesome! My long comment to you is what created this post in the first place. I hit 700 words and knew I had to make a post out of it instead of a comment. :)
You’ve got the money angle down tight. I bet you can really work that with your son as a way of getting him to packrat less. Experiences over stuff. Yes! Earning money (by doing chores) to buy his stuff. These approaches will be a great start.
Now about those grandparents. Check out Jaime in the comment up a bit. She has it down to a science with the grandparents. One gift per occasion. Implement that first. Now it may be uncomfortable, especially since they’ve already shown resistance, but you know how to be a tough cookie and stand your ground. If you need inspiration on standing up to parents check out this post.
I love the one thing in, two things out concept. That is fantabulous. Between getting those grandparents in line and doing this, your son is going to be paring down quick!
I haven’t any children and can’t add much to Tanja’s excellent advice.
But I’d like to send a loving wave of gratitude to my own late mother. Mom made sure I had a savings account from the time I was an infant. Mom showed me how to set aside money for rainy days whenever times were good enough for allowances. Mom also insisted that a portion of the allowances be donated to good causes.
Mom taught me how to reconcile the checkbook balance and the bank statements. Mom paid off any charges on the family credit card every month and explained why that was important. Mom helped me open my first CD when I lucked into a grant for a college research project. Those being different times, it paid eight percent.
Mom’s lessons gave me the confidence to acquire a home with Mr. G when I was fresh out of school. We paid off the mortgage in just over half the original term, freeing ourselves of debt before I turned 40, while building up a respectable emergency fund, despite the fact that our household income has tended to run a bit below the American average.
Children who receive training in personal finance from their parent(s) are better prepared to handle life’s curveballs with resilience and grace. Thanks, Mom! I don’t know how you got so smart, but you gave me a better gift than all the toys in the world. I wish you were still here, so I could give you a hug and properly express my appreciation.
Tracy how beautiful. Your mom really set you up well for life. What an amazing woman (both you and your mom!) Every time I learn something more about you I realize you are living the dream. A paid off house before 40, no debt, and a minimalist lifestyle. You and Mr. G are doing a lot of things right girl!
Tanja I have too long a comment to pop it here. This post is fab! I am going to summarize some thoughts and then direct my readers over here to your post. If it’s okay I’ll quote you? Jo
Good idea Jo. Guess I should have thought of that before posting a book here, huh? ;)
Jenny @ exconsumer recently posted..Are Personal Finance and Minimalism the Same
Quote away darlin’!
This whole post started because I was leaving too long a comment for Jenny. I think whole books could be written on the subject. Looking forward to what you write Jo.
Cheers Tanja – I like the idea of chain commenting – wonder how far it could go? Jo
I have it set to something crazy like 10 comments deep. I like the idea of conversations developing!
You’ve inspired my next post Tanja. Get ready to see some shameful photos tomorrow. :)
Jenny @ exconsumer recently posted..Goodbye Debt Hello Hawaii
I love shameful photos! I’m on my way to check it out. :)
Well, when my kids were growing up I didn’t do too well at this, although we did not buy every last gadget there was. We did have quite a collection of Legos and Knex, as well as a few Barbies, but that gave way to toy horses and barns before long!
Funny thing is, when my almost 18 year old daughter was finally clearing out her *kid stuff* from her room around 14, she found several shoe boxes of rocks. Mostly granite. Mostly in the shape of an *arrowhead*. She was always looking for rocks and thought they were something to be treasured. We had a good laugh about those arrowheads and she threw them out, lol!
Now it is CLOTHES she collects! She is my fashion queen.
Bernice
Living the Balanced Life recently posted..Are we there yet
Hey Bernice,
You know the wonderful thing about rocks is you can just “gift” them back to the earth. I used to collect rocks, seashells, chunks of wood. If it was natural I had it. :) During my big purge I put it all back out on the land. Nice and easy! And hey, 18 years old is the perfect time to be a fashion queen. Enjoy those years while she’s still hanging around the nest!
this is a really cool post because i have been thinking about this a lot latey. We are trying to have a baby and i want to make sure that our child doesn’t get caught up in the consumerism that pervades kids today.
could you tell your son that he has to keep his belongings put away within his closet, toy chest, and/or drawers. if his stuff starts to “crawl” out of them, you have the right to take them and give them away after one warning? i guess that sounds kind of harsh, but i bet he’d learn real quick after losing one thing.
marianney | A Life Set Free recently posted..6 Simple Steps to Maximize Your Subscriber Counts
Marianney, I bet he’d learn quick too! My folks had a “free spirit” approach to child-rearing where they really wanted to let me explore my own limits. I am a free spirit but sometimes I wish I’d had a few more ground rules!
Good luck with your plans to have a baby. What an exciting time for you!
thanks Tanja!
well it might be a little harsh to take stuff away, but if you give them fair warning before you take it away, then i can’t really see why it would be mean. at some points kids need to learn that they have to do as they’re told.
i just see so many misbehaved brats these days that get away with so much. stuff that we would have NEVER gotten away with when we were kids and it is starting to foster a decline in our civility and society. kids need to be brought up with consequences for their actions, not babied.
marianney | A Life Set Free recently posted..11 Up & Coming Minimalist Bloggers You Should Know About
I love your post! I totally relate to the shopping mall. My mom took me shopping every weekend and for me growing up, that was the norm. We are breaking the mold with our kids and try to find other ways to spend quality time together.
I love your tips and agree that kids don’t need much. Anything around the house + their imaginations = hours of fun, or as we call it these days “imaginary play.” But the thing is, kids don’t really need big expensive dollhouses or a 50 dolls with hundreds of clothes. A box, a piece of yarn and a plastic tube have provided hours of entertainment for my kids.
selena | this contented life recently posted..life lesson 11 I learned from my kids
Hey Selena,
It sounds like we had similar upbringings. I lived at the mall and thought nothing of spending ridiculous amounts of my parents money. I thought all shirts had to cost $80 (and that was 20 years ago when 80 bucks meant more!) How wonderful that you’re following a different approach with your kids.
I have three boys and I struggle with this constantly. This post gave me some good ideas. I struggle not feeling resentful when the boys don’t clean up after themselves. I like the idea of “your things in your room.” The biggest problem I face is that my two younger boys (9 and 7) share a room. The older one is more experienced with cleaning and often has to clean up after the younger one. Looking forward to reading more of your blog.
Astreil recently posted..Our World Upside Down
Hey Astreil,
The “your things in your room” is a solid approach but it does take the grown-ups leading by example! No fair getting called out on clutter by a 7 year old. :)
I’d set up up a nightly clean up where the boys have to pick up their stuff laying around the house for 5 minutes every evening. 5 minutes isn’t long and it can make a big difference, especially when they realize anything they missed goes in the “clutter box” for a month!
Tanja – I love your site. You do a great job of going in depth on significant topics. I love that you do serial posts. I’m looking forward to more on kids, as I am pregnant with my first child. I love everything you wrote in this post, especially applying a “Your Money or Your Life” concept to the time cost of what we buy and breaking it down for a kid.
The sentimental clutter series and pregnancy nesting instincts have inspired me. This week I pulled up 5 tubs/boxes of childhood/HS memorabilia and have been going through it. I’m on track to finish this weekend and will be down to 1.5 – 2 boxes of “keepers.” Your idea of grouping things by category before purging was vital! I used to pull out the memorabilia, planning to purge, then feel overwhelmed and put it all back. You helped put me in a new mindset that is incredibly productive.
Thanks! Keep doing what you’re doing.
A stick was also one of my favorite things as a kid…so much so that I still have it at age 27! Uh oh!
Liina recently posted..Things I Luv
Read below or add a comment… These approaches will be a great start.
Phyllis Bonner recently posted..Arthritis Tips
I used to pull out the memorabilia, planning to purge, then feel overwhelmed and put it all back. Keep doing what you’re doing. This whole post started because I was leaving too long a comment for Jenny.
Jacqueline Floyd recently posted..Swiffer Mops
Tanya, I’m enjoying Bootcamp (day 18), and I appreciate the tips and lessons given here and in your guide. We review the value of money and what it affords, regularly, and I own that its our responsibility to limit the ‘ins’. Its the ‘outs’ we are struggling with and in particular, the practicalities of getting rid of their stuff while they are present. The reaction is tears for the length of the culling, every time (my girls are 7 and 5 1/2). And culling is the perfect word because you would think I was having them personally slaughter half a herd. Of some kind of very cute animal.
So, I would rather cull toys when they are absent or asleep and deal with 10 minutes of tears – if they even realize the toys are missing. This may diminish the learning, but has kept me sane through the areas involving kid clutter. I ended up finding a good article on why collections are so important to 6-11 year olds at the successful parent blog. It helped me to appreciate that I likely don’t have two diagnosable hoarders in my midst ; ). Thanks again for Bootcamp!
Janice recently posted..day 18: kitchen gadget stalemate
This really help me a lot and you inspire me being a minimalist mom. I am minimalist mom and I make sure that my rooms of my kids will not be messy. It is important to me that everything is organized.
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